Reflecting on an Anti-Racism Activation Experience

This past winter, the Dartmouth softball and women's lacrosse teams hosted Kyle Williams and Kamal Carter on campus for A Long Talk About The Uncomfortable Truth, which as described on their website, is "an anti-racism activation experience."

"Kyle and Kamal are really passionate," said Kate Farren of softball. "They want to promote equity and inclusion and make the world a better place. It definitely made our team stronger and we drew closer from it."

It was also very informational.

"Their whole point and takeaway was that silence isn't acceptable," said Farren. "There's a difference between being a nonracist and being an active antiracist."

The long talk experience helps people get to that point as an antiracist. First, there is pre-work before entering into group discussion. The pre-work is a multimedia collection of content reflecting the truth about the history of racism in the United States and the impact it continues to have on our society today.

The long talk features a pair of two-hour sessions, usually held within one week of each other.

"I believe we're lacking in the United States a true understanding of how to approach such hard topics and how to have conversations about them," said Reed Cole of women's lacrosse. "Since we are in such a family and close-knit community at Dartmouth, if we don't have these conversations, we're just letting things like racism continue. At a time when education and growing a knowledge base is one of the most important ways to stop bigotry and hate, this is such an important step to take."

Setting the Scene
During the spring of 2020 — which was when George Floyd was murdered — Dartmouth head softball coach Jen Williams was motivated to take action.

"We received feedback from one of our 2020 graduates, a Black player on our team, who had the courage to say our team needed to be better," said Williams. "That was a wakeup call for me as a coach. I spoke to her after that and said I want to hear whatever you want to share with me. I'm going to make sure I'm educating myself about what we should be doing differently to make sure we're being actively antiracist within our team.

"I am very grateful for her courage and being willing to talk to me, because it has really changed the trajectory of a lot of what we've done with the program," Williams continued.

Jen Williams with A Long Talk — Jen Williams with Kamal Carter and Kyle Williams

Williams began looking for ways to educate herself and the team. In December of 2020, she came across A Long Talk through the National Fastpitch Coaches Association Convention.

"I went through the first two sessions of their program at convention, along with any other coaches who elected to join, and it was incredible," said Williams. "Kyle and Kamal are such engaging speakers, have so much conviction and so much knowledge, and they're so good at talking about this to groups."

Jen Williams walked up to Kyle Williams and Carter and said, "We have to get you to Dartmouth."

Dartmouth softball's first session was in January of 2022. A year later, Jen Williams teamed with head women's lacrosse coach Alex McFadden to bring A Long Talk to campus this winter.

A Long Talk is Formed
A Long Talk was formed around a simple desire.

"It was simply two Black fathers who wanted change now," said Carter.

The two fathers are Carter and Williams, who met at Hampton University.

As Carter said, "We had a friendship that became like a brotherhood, but when George Floyd was murdered, it was me calling out to my brother and saying, 'What are we going to do?'"

When Carter's mother was a little girl, she went to the March on Washington.

"There's a picture of her on the steps that encapsulated that historical time for her," said Carter. "All my life, I was raised by activists and didn't even know. My mom would advocate for change. Around when she turned 40, she stopped all activism because she saw mostly Black and brown people. She didn't see a lot of white people joining in or other non-Black people saying let's end this systemic oppression."

Carter's mother became fatigued.

"She started to condition us to say survive racism… just survive it," said Carter. "It's going to take hundreds and hundreds of years to change."

When Floyd was murdered, Carter didn't want to wait that long.

"We can do something; we can put together a coalition," he said. "George Floyd's murder, the murder of Breonna Taylor, Ahmaud Arbery and countless others was the spark that made this happen. When I called Kyle, he had already started to work on A Long Talk. His sons, who played college basketball, had experienced some hate from their team captains and it was this big conversation."

There was one positive theme coming out of various conversations.

"There are a lot of people who care," said Carter. "We just have to activate people out of neutral and get them from being nonracist to being antiracist.

"That started our movement."

Providing the Tools to Have a Conversation
The movement has made an impact on countless lives, and will continue to do so, with Dartmouth softball and women's lacrosse being among the latest beneficiaries.

"They give you tools to have conversations," said McFadden. "They're actionable steps to become antiracist. You work through it, talk with the people around you and practice how to do it. A lot of it is acknowledging if someone were to say something that doesn't really sit right, you ask them about it. Have them acknowledge what it is they're saying and try to get down to the root of what they're trying to say.

"They are difficult conversations, no question," McFadden continued. "The best way to go about it is educating and then acting on that education."

That education can come in many forms.

"We practiced handling situations where people either said racist comments or microaggressions," said Cole. "We even talked about the usage of the stereotypes with women in sports, like you throw like a girl, and how to approach situations like that. That conversation tactic, where you're learning how to create a middle ground with someone who does not have the same opinion as you, is valuable no matter the setting.

"They're skills I started using in my life, even in situations where I'm uncomfortable and don't agree with something," Cole continued. "Find value in continuing to ask questions about what people are saying so they can understand how hurtful their comments are. That creates a lot of productive communication."

The goal of Williams and Carter is exactly as Cole described: to teach people skill sets that transcend all situations and mediums.

"Wherever there's someone who's marginalized or hurt by words or actions, we need to translate these skill sets," said Carter. "Kyle and I understand racism and anti-blackness, but there's racism towards a lot of different groups. We need to build a coalition and a skill set of us working together and people on the sidelines using their positions. If I'm a teacher, if I'm a coach, if I'm a captain, I need to speak up on behalf of this person who's being hurt because it's hurting the entire locker room."

Carter and Williams have a 15-year game plan to push racism out to the fringes.

"Right now, racism is in high definition," said Carter. "Our goal is to keep working at the pace we're working and in 15 years, have enough people who have the skill set and this mindset coming out of neutral and opposing racism."

Carter compared neutralizing racism to how cigarette smokers have been neutralized.
A Long Talk Story Softball Women's Lacrosse

A Long Talk Story Softball Women's Lacrosse

"Think about it… people used to smoke everywhere in America and we realized it was killing people," he said. "The surgeon general stepped in, there were warning signs on stickers, on boxes, but it was still killing people.

"It eventually got to the point where the smokers had to go outside," Carter continued. "They had a little area in buildings, but eventually, they're outside. We want to do the same thing in 15 years with racism. You can say whatever you want, it's America, but you don't have a place on our softball team, on our lacrosse team.

"You don't have a place at Dartmouth."

Getting Comfortable Being Uncomfortable
Improving in anything — whether it be academics, athletics or life — isn't easy or comfortable. The same is very true for ending racism.

"Getting comfortable being uncomfortable is really beneficial," said Farren. "Just being able to have these uncomfortable conversations with teammates made us a lot closer."

Turning from not being a racist to antiracist isn't a comfortable process, but necessary and at the core of A Long Talk's purpose.

"One metaphor that was used was an iceberg," said Cole. "When we think of racism, we think of what's just above the surface, which is a lot of outward hate, but in reality, being a bystander and not standing up for someone also plays a role. Being actively antiracist is speaking up for what's right, actively doing the work to educate ourselves and actively going against those structural inequalities that have been embedded in not only American history, but also the history of the world."

One definition of antiracism is "the policy or practice of opposing racism and promoting racial equality." The word evokes plenty of action.
A Long Talk Women's Lacrosse Softball

"As a society, when we hear problematic statements, we don't have a skill set," said Carter. "We're taught just to hope that person goes away or we'll talk about it after the meeting, but we don't know how to challenge them. It's not about arguing, but to get them to think critically if they really believe the statements they're saying."

Carter and Williams teach a skill to "interrupt" racism.

"When people say problematic statements, how do we move them to a space of separating to see if they believe what they're saying?" said Carter. "Are they willing to be open to dialogue?"

Progress Over Perfection
The Dartmouth softball and women's lacrosse teams were very much open to dialogue and it helped them grow as students, as athletes, as coaches, as teammates… and as people.

"Kyle and Kamal are so passionate," said McFadden. "It's not just a lecture; they are giving personal stories, they're sharing their feelings and their emotion. You can really feel how they feel about it. They're two Black men, both with children.

"Their passion comes out when they're talking and it's so easy to want to learn, listen and act after hearing their experiences and vision to help make the country a better place."

Cole wrote down a quote by Denzel Washington that was mentioned as part of A Long Talk.

"The quote is, 'Everything changed the day I decided that you are my lesson, not my enemy,'" said Cole. "If we combat hate with hate, we're not really changing anything, but if we decide to engage, try to educate and get a common ground, then hopefully that can change things."
A Long Talk Women's Lacrosse Softball

One phrase often said was progress over perfection.

"That's one of the biggest takeaways I want my athletes to lead with," said Jen Williams. "We have to fight for progress, especially at a school with primarily white student-athletes and primarily white student body. We have to look for progress and hold ourselves accountable. We're not going to be perfect and we have to go in with that understanding.

"If we let fear of not being perfect stop us from educating ourselves and trying to be better, figuring out action plans and executing them, then we're never going to make progress."

Progress was made on the Dartmouth campus. The Big Green student-athletes and coaches were inspired by Carter, while Carter was inspired by the fact that there are so many people who care.

"We're a grassroots organization that wants to see change and the fact that we've been able to work with the teams, it's an honor," he said.

"My mother did not believe I would meet people like that."

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